Click for the full comparison
Joe Satriani v. Christopher Martin et al. (Coldplay) is back in the news now that laywers for Coldplay and Capitol Records have filed their responses to Satriani’s copyright infringement claim. They list nine defenses, including the tack that Satriani’s song “lacks originality and is thus not protectable by copyright”. This was the argument of our previous post on the case, where we provided several songs, spanning decades, which share the same melodic structure as the tunes under litigation. Still there were those partisans who were unconvinced and claimed that if we would only transcribe the two melodies — the chorus of “If I Could Fly” and the opening verse of “Viva la Vida” — we’d see that they are note-for-note identical and that Coldplay’s collective goose is cooked. So for those interested parties who can read music, click the image above for the two transcribed melodies in approximate alignment. It should be noted that Satriani’s excerpt was originally in B-minor and has been transposed to F-minor to match the key of “Viva”. Other analyses have pounced on the similarities of the phrases’ starts and the fact that there are some note sequences that are the same or even reverses of one another. But I think there is one rather large difference between these two melodies that overshadows those parallels: Satriani’s phrase is nearly a measure longer than Coldplay’s. The red arrows in the image above indicate where the first phrase resolves in each case. “Viva” has already moved on to pickup notes into the next phrase while Satriani is still finding his way to F, home plate in this key.
Let your ears confirm it for you. With all production stripped, you can clearly hear how the phrases begin the same but diverge in the third bar with Satriani’s melody (stereo right) lagging behind Coldplay’s (stereo left):
If Satriani’s case truly hangs on that initial three-note sequence – long, short, long; five, six, four – I imagine it will be difficult to argue that one of his predecessors is not more deserving of that copyright:
Related TOE posts:
- Coldplay vs. Joe Satriani :: Who Owns the Descending Melody?
- Scientist – Coldplay [Wicker Park Soundtrack]
- A Crash Course on The Egyptian Lover
- A Vocoder Valentine
- The Story of Chet Baker
Okay, I’m going to try again, assuming there’s something systematic about your methods… How did you, wnu, find these similar tunes? Is this a secret you can reveal?
Nothing systematic. Some were common knowledge, others were uncommon knowledge.
I’m a guitar player. I think I’m obligated to like Satriani over Coldplay simply based on technical prowess. That being said, what the fuck? You can’t copyright melodic phrases! Sure, maybe legally you can, but is Joe so hard up for cash right now that he has to go against thousands of years of musical heritage? Everyone borrows from everyone else. That’s how it works. Metallica’s older work was just reimaged blues rock. Listen to some vocal riffs that Stephen Lynch uses -> Straight up Stevie Wonder. It’s the musical creative process. Besides, even if the melodies ARE exactly the same for a few bars, as it appears in the images in the article, that really says nothing for the underlying chord structure and progression and how certain progressions *imply* a certain melody that would be hard not to take. So what, you going to copyright your particular combination of rhythm and chord progression? Howling Wolf would like to have a word with you. Maybe Joe went to give Kirk Hammet some followup lessons and ended up spending a few minutes talking to Lars about his opinions of ownership…
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Also check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGGFJLpbu4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJWLfpOecyE
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You can’t copyright melodic phrases! Yes you can, and US copyright law *doesn’t even define how long the melody has to be before it can be copyrighted*. But I’m sure there has to be *enough* similarity before a lawyer would even take your case. This case is kind of on the line. >the images in the article, that really says nothing for the underlying chord structure and progression and how certain progressions imply a certain melody that would be hard not to take. The chord progressions don’t even matter, especially since you can’t copyright them. They could be both be playing whatever arbitrary changes over the melody, but the only thing that matters legally is the melody.
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What I meant was that a certain chord progression would naturally imply a certain melody. Based on the changes in chord tones certain melodic lines will immediately come to mind. If they were both following that then it would make sense that they are so similar.
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legality aside, I agree with you. This whole thing is stupid, there are so many songs that compare in a similar way that I’m sure no one ever claimed plagiarism on. Satriani is a great guitar player but this whole story has made me think he’s also quite a douche.
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that plus the fact that they are 1. comparing a verse to a chorus and 2. comparing melodies in *different keys* this is such a sad money-grab its embarrassing.
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comparing melodies in different keys So, are you saying that you think it’s OK to claim a melody/piece of a melody for yourself as long as you change it to a different key?
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Maybe he’s broke…? I dunno. All musicianship aside, if I was dirt ass broke I’d probably try to pull a stunt like this. Even if he doesn’t get royalties he’s introduced himself to a whole new crowd of popmusic listeners.
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uhhh, not in general, but just to add it to the laundry list of functional differences between the melodies in question are pretty large, all things considered. this is a pretty weak case and i will be *extremely* surprised if it gains any traction. Plus: What was the motive for coldplay? That album has like 4 singles out right now. Even without viva la vida they would be rolling in money. They don’t need to be unscrupulously thieving clips of generic melodic material from marginally successful 80s guitarists, because success in the pop world is a matter of money and marketing, not ‘melody’. the only one with ‘motive’ here is satriani.
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hah, ill bet fighting warner music & coldplay costs some SERIOUS $$$$$$$$. i vote douche.
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Just consider it a strategic investment. Coldplay has TONS more earning potential.
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but just to add it to the laundry list of functional differences between the melodies in question The key is *completely* irrelevant. The key doesn’t make a melody. The grouping of particular intervals and rhythms do. >What was the motive for coldplay? Their motive doesn’t matter. The issue is whether or not the two melodies are similar enough to warrant copyright infringement.
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lol, are you part of the prosecution or something? whats relevant is that it is a *very* simple diatonic melody which needs to be moved up a minor 6th, truncated and cut up to sound similar, and even *then* only in a superficial sense. if thats not a stretch, i don’t know what is… i would say that given the weakness of the case motive will be all that could possibly salvage the case *for* satriani.
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If this business of suing over similar, even full out plagiarised melodies is allowed to continue than virtually every musician known to man is gonna owe the descendents of Johann Pachelbel a whole lot of money.
Musicians have found a new source of revenue now that they can’t make money from selling records…suing other artists!
a musician there’s so much I hate about this – Coldplay, Joe Satriani, law suits, copyright for a short order of notes – that it just makes me wish even harder that all parties didn’t exist in the first place. It’s worse than that story a few years ago of Metallica trying to sue a Canadian band for using the F5 to E5 power chord progression. At least in that case the music styles were similar, the only real comparison with this is that they’re both incredibly shit (sorry for the language).
story to focus on: why/how are The Cool Kids claiming the Teenage Cool Kids have infringed on their name?
It isn’t just that three-note phrase. The chord progression is almost exactly the same. Theory actually doesn’t recognize much of a difference, since I believe the third chords in each progression are different but are considered alternates. If you break down both chords, there is a single note difference, disregarding intonations.
The rhythm is also almost exactly the same. It’s so close, the difference is unrecognizable over short periods of time. I believe it’s only two bpm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGGFJLpbu4
That guy does a fairly good job of breaking it down.
All things considered, I think Coldplay have taken Satriani’s melody, probably without meaning to (I mean, what original artist wants to be known as someone who steals from someone else?). But having said that, Satriani really shouldn’t throw stones when he’s clearly living in a glass house – witness the unashamed rip-off of several of Jeff Beck’s guitar licks in the outro solo of his (Satriani’s) track!
And where’s the lawsuit from Joy Division against Coldplay for lifting their song Bizarre Love Triangle?!
How can you sue for ownership rights when it appears that you have done exactly what you are accusing of the defendant? How obtuse is Satriani? I’m sure that he would like to settle. When the details are revealed before any even mildly reasonable judge the case should be dismissed on summary judgement. FYI, Joy Division had become New Order when they released “Bizarre Love Triangle”.
seriously though.. satriani has taught a bunch of great musicians, that means that he is also a great musician, and Im talking about theoretical knowledge.
if he’s that well informed, I guess he knows what he’s talking about and why he wouldn’t feel “threatened” by those other songs you guys say he ripped off himself, or do you think he didnt transpose the keys, measured the beats and stuff?
and again, I’m a composer myself, and if I saw someone getting nominated for a grammy with a song apparently copied from one of mine, I’d get pissed too.